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| Joselu: Scored on debut |
What Real Madrid's official site wanted to convey didn't sit well with me, this post of ten youth teamers debuting was a way to please the fans who have been wanting to see the youth teamers with the first team, wanting to see another Raul, another Casillas, another De La Red; this post reminded me of what these debuts meant for Jose Mourinho—another way to please the fans.
I won't deny it, never have, never will—I'm not the biggest Jose Mourinho fan (but still I'm glad he is continuing with the team because he marked an amazing season with the club.). So there, you can use this against me, say that my hate for Jose Mourinho is the reason I see this as a way to please the fans. But you can't change the facts, can you?
Juan Carlos, Mateos, Antonio Adan, Pablo Sarabia, Alvaro Morata, Alex Fernandez, Nacho Fernandez, Tomas Mejias, Jesus and Joselu made their debuts for the first team this season according to the post, but lets not count Alex Fernandez because all he got was a little above 30 seconds at Racing and not single touch of the ball. So that means only nine canteranos properly debuted this season.
What makes me question Jose Mourinho's actions, and say that all these debuts were just to please the fans is because out of these nine, only two players have made more than one appearance—Adan and Nacho. Not counting Morata as despite the Levante tie in Copa del Rey being dead and buried, he only got a substitute appearance.
Had Mourinho been genuinely interested in using them, surely more canteranos would have gotten more than one appearance and Nacho wouldn't have been the only outfield player to get a start and play a full game; especially when Pablo Sarabia impressed in the 30 minutes he got to play against Auxerre and has been performing brilliantly for the Castilla week in and week out.
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| Sarabia: Impressive on debut |
Many of these canteranos in the beginning got in the team because of Jose Mourinho's helplessness. Mateos was given a professional contract at the start of the season because, Pepe and Garay were out injured, and there was no back up in central defense.
Adan got a start because Casillas wasn't called up for the game and Dudek broke his jaw, then later Dudek's injury saw Adan make more appearances. I think you catch my drift, by the end of the season, Mourinho had realized what the impact a canterano appearance makes on the fans, still Nacho's start was more due to suspensions.
Adan got a start because Casillas wasn't called up for the game and Dudek broke his jaw, then later Dudek's injury saw Adan make more appearances. I think you catch my drift, by the end of the season, Mourinho had realized what the impact a canterano appearance makes on the fans, still Nacho's start was more due to suspensions.
I'm not saying, I'm not thankful of Mourinho to start so many canteranos, but I'm not particularly thrilled about their future if they were used as a tool to make the fans happy. The last player to get promoted to the first team was Mateos, he was loaned out to AEK Athens in the January transfer window. I'm sure had he stayed here longer, he wouldn't have notched up 90 minutes in a season.
Talking about Mateos isn't fair, because surely there was no way he would have started over Carvalho, Pepe, Garay or Albiol. But we can definitely use Sergio Canales as an example; Canales was supposed to be going on loan this season before Jose Mourinho himself requested to keep him with the squad for the season.
We all saw what happened with him. If Sergio Canales—who had a decent season in La Liga before joining, wasn't trusted by Mourinho to get enough minutes, I don't see a way how the canteranos who play in Segunda B can gain his trust if they are promoted.
The way that Jose Mourinho has acted, promoting the canteranos is not an option that will be any good for the canteranos, because once they get promoted officially they are no longer eligible to play for Real Madrid Castilla, which will mean they're most likely to notch up 300 minutes a season at most, if they're lucky enough.
I won't complain about the canteranos getting 300 minutes if they are sent in crunch situations, like Gonzalo Higuain was when he was new at Real Madrid, during the time when the scores were level or when Real Madrid were behind; he was sent in to get a goal, get a result; that is positive reinforcement for a young player.
But how the things have gone so far, these 300 minutes will most likely come when the game's result is beyond doubt; which will hardly help build any character, they'll never be ready for the first team like this. It's better they stick with the Castilla or join another La Liga club with a buy-back clause, because that is a strategy that seems to be working.
I feel that I am being a little too harsh on Jose Mourinho, it's not exactly his complete fault that he doesn't trust the canteranos, it's a little too hard to put the blame on him when you know what kind of pressure to succeed is on him.
The man who has to be blamed for this is none other than Florentino Perez, had he not sacked Vicente Del Bosque, there wouldn't have been a period of instability at the club, and the managers would have taken the risk to give chances to canteranos.
We all saw what happened with him. If Sergio Canales—who had a decent season in La Liga before joining, wasn't trusted by Mourinho to get enough minutes, I don't see a way how the canteranos who play in Segunda B can gain his trust if they are promoted.
The way that Jose Mourinho has acted, promoting the canteranos is not an option that will be any good for the canteranos, because once they get promoted officially they are no longer eligible to play for Real Madrid Castilla, which will mean they're most likely to notch up 300 minutes a season at most, if they're lucky enough.
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| Will they be used like Higuain? |
But how the things have gone so far, these 300 minutes will most likely come when the game's result is beyond doubt; which will hardly help build any character, they'll never be ready for the first team like this. It's better they stick with the Castilla or join another La Liga club with a buy-back clause, because that is a strategy that seems to be working.
I feel that I am being a little too harsh on Jose Mourinho, it's not exactly his complete fault that he doesn't trust the canteranos, it's a little too hard to put the blame on him when you know what kind of pressure to succeed is on him.
The man who has to be blamed for this is none other than Florentino Perez, had he not sacked Vicente Del Bosque, there wouldn't have been a period of instability at the club, and the managers would have taken the risk to give chances to canteranos.
Hala Madrid!
Kind of support your view...Jose Mourinho is doing a great job but he is not the man for Real to go forward..
ReplyDeleteI agree with the first para that RM website made it too big a deal to show the no.s that 10 canteneros debuted along with the last para that it's actually FP's fault !
ReplyDeleteTo think that mou is actually debuting youth players to get the crowd support , well you can never know what goes on his mind . You can speculate but never know ! And according to me , I feel Mou actually cares about youth teamer , a lot , but with the sword hanging on his neck to win back the big titles from the present "best club in the world " , he can't take tons of risks . The reason I'm saying he cares a lot has to do with the canteneros statements , the fact that Mou attends tons of castilla matches + the smile on his face when joselu scored was the 1st genuine one I had seen from him since 6-7 months !
Maybe I feel this because I am a Mou lover (you too can hold that against me ;) ) , but I do feel we are demanding a lot out of mourinho in 8 months time . We expect him to create a great squad , get adjusted( which means dealing with FP's and Valdano's politics and winning against them) , win matches , win against barcelona (who for all their antiques in the champs league , were better in the league ) , win trophies , give a chance to canteneros , not just with less playing time , but with a lot , and promote them to 1st team as well . Well as Mou himself put it , he's not harry potter !
Things will take time , maybe next season after we get "La Decima " (hopefully) &/or get a league trophy that he'll get the chance to actually experiment , to give new players a proper break-through !
Sorry for the long comment though , just had too much to say :P !
I agree with the first para that RM website made it too big a deal to
ReplyDeleteshow the no.s that 10 canteneros debuted along with the last para that
it's actually FP's fault !
To think that mou is actually debuting
youth players to get the crowd support , well you can never know what
goes on his mind . You can speculate but never know ! And according to
me , I feel Mou actually cares about youth teamer , a lot , but with the
sword hanging on his neck to win back the big titles from the present
"best club in the world " , he can't take tons of risks . The reason I'm
saying he cares a lot has to do with the canteneros statements , the
fact that Mou attends tons of castilla matches + the smile on his face
when joselu scored was the 1st genuine one I had seen from him since 6-7
months !
Maybe I feel this because I am a Mou lover (you too can
hold that against me ;) ) , but I do feel we are demanding a lot out of
mourinho in 8 months time . We expect him to create a great squad , get
adjusted( which means dealing with FP's and Valdano's politics and
winning against them) , win matches , win against barcelona (who for all
their antiques in the champs league , were better in the league ) , win
trophies , give a chance to canteneros , not just with less playing
time , but with a lot , and promote them to 1st team as well . Well as
Mou himself put it , he's not harry potter !
Things will take time ,
maybe next season after we get "La Decima " (hopefully) &/or get a
league trophy that he'll get the chance to actually experiment , to give
new players a proper break-through !
Sorry for the long comment though , just had too much to say :P !
We expect him to create a great squad , get
ReplyDeleteadjusted( which means dealing with FP's and Valdano's politics and
winning against them) , win matches , win against barcelona (who for all
their antiques in the champs league , were better in the league ) , win
trophies , give a chance to canteneros , not just with less playing
time , but with a lot , and promote them to 1st team as well . Well as
Mou himself put it , he's not harry potter !
This is the standard expectation at Real Madrid. And many managers did build Cantera-centred and successful squads. Granted 8 months is too little time, unless he can deliver - especially the CL which i think is Real Madrid's focus at this point - by next season, he'll most likely be gone (and hopefully with him, Florentino Perez)
Mou's definitely not the right long term solution that we so desperately need. We need a coach who wouldn't use players who're approaching the twilight of their careers (Carvalho, Altintop et al) and get a last hurrah out of them and then leave. I doubt Mou has a long term plan - if he has, we've yet to see it. Quick success formula never works.
maybe next season after we get "La Decima " (hopefully) &/or get a
league trophy that he'll get the chance to actually experiment
But if we don't? Morata and Sarabia are largely unproven at this stage. Unless Mou starts to gradually introduce them into the first team, we'll lose two extremely talented youngsters. This will be like a repeat of 2007 when we lost Mata. These guys are young and Mou can't suddenly one day decide he's going to call them up to the first team and throw them into the deep end without a float. Instead, like Deepak said, he needs to gradually introduce them - meaning they need to still be part of Castilla but getting more and more call ups AND substantial playing time with the first team. Bringing them on for the last 30 seconds or letting them warm the bench won't do any good either.
And to do all this, we can't wait for La Decima. That may or no may not come soon, but these kids are growing up and offers are already pouring in. How long would they wait?
Que sera, sera... Whatever will be, will be...
ReplyDeleteFloRez isn't the right man you see...
Que sera, sera...
I think you take it a tad too far with your argument, letting your emotions get in the way of your thinking. Of course, I'm not aiming that at you saying anything bad about Mou, since you know how i feel about Mou myself. What i direct this is about the expectations you have. Yes the campaign on the official website is over hyped and sugar coated, but there are positives to take from some of it.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, we have to be clear that Mou is NOT a guy to raise youth products. He had Santon at Inter who is one of the best up and coming right backs and he barely gave him a chance. This in itself makes giving 9 or 8 canteranos a chance to wear the shirt nice.
Second of all, i don't think a canterano getting 300 minutes is the worse thing ever. If Morata is promoted right now and he is given the time that Canales is given and gets to start around 6 games in the season, then im happy. Why is that? Well because it is good for them to get experience of La Liga football. Even if its when the team is up 6-0 and they get 10 or 15 minutes. It gives them a chance to operate under less tense conditions. Not only that, but there is a big part that you are missing. Training with the first team under the coaching staff and under a manager like Mourinho and players like Xabi alonso, Ozil, Ronaldo and etc is vital to players that are so young. This in itself is good for the development of these players.
Players like Pedro and Busi didn't get to start right away. They started training with the first team and when they were ready, they were given a chance. Our best players ATM are 18 years old. The likes of Sarabia, Morata, Alex and Carvajal can do well with some experience with training and some game action. After a year of doing that, i start expecting them to be more integrated in the squad. But this is a start. And it is better than nothing. And saying we want them as a vital part of the team or we don't want them in the team at all is a bit of a rash decision to make.
If we are going to be serious about the integration of these players into the first team, then we have to be realistic about it. The solution isn't to just loan them or keep them in Castilla. The solution is to take advantage of any chance that is given for any reason that it comes with.
1) "many managers did build Cantera-centred and successful squads." Well the last squad which had a proper cantenero base , was the one of 1995 , the year that raul got promoted ! before that we had tons of cantenero based squads and famous ones , but in the last 20 years there have been no managers that has a cantenero based squad that has achieved success.
ReplyDelete2) And well to the part where you say Mou can't be a long term solution for buying players in the twilight of their age like Carvalho , altintop etc , why do you forget that he has also bought players like Ozil , di maria , sahin , khedeira ?? These are all in their early twenties ! And if they stay and do a great job , well you have a solution for the next 6-7 years , short term huh ?
3) to your statement , " But if we don't? " , well as you mentioned it earlier in your comment that if we don't then Mourinho will be gone (and hopefully with him , FP ) . I know we can't wait for la decima to come to give the canteneros a chance but we need to think of it from a coach's view even . Mou has the sword hanging on his head , if he delivers la decima , he stays , gets a breathing space for a year , where he can promote the cantenero , else he goes ! The problem here is not Mou , its FP , or the Real Management in general , who want trophies super fast !! Even SAF didn't win anything in the 1st 4-5 years at MU , but the club had patience , they gave him the time to build a team from scratch and we all can see the results today . The present Barcelona team also didn't win a lot in the earlier years , but they were allowed time , and we can see the heights they have reached today .
If Mou takes a risk with the castilla players and the gamble doesn't pay off , and we don't replenish our squad then what ?? He has to buy a couple of players this season ( though I myself don't get altintop use , unless lass had handed his transfer request before ) so that in case of injuries we have a back up . And if after buying these players , in case of less/no injuries he doesn't give them time to play in easy matches but gives castilla players tons of chances , then the player's will be super unhappy !!
So in the end I guess it all comes down to next season . We win big next year , system stablises a bit and castilla are given their chance , if not then mou gets fired and along with him , hopefully , FP and we get a new intelligent President , who is a little less impatient and gives time for the squad to be created from scratch ,and castilla get their chance !!
P.s And yea as far as standard expectations at RM go , in the past 20 years
there has just been 1 standard expectation , that is win !!
the castilla best players were couple 18 year old kids (alex, carbajal, morata and sarabia).. all of them played in the juvenil last year and up until toril took over were bench players for the most part. mou has alot of pressure to win to the point that having a canterano in the bench could come back to hunt him when they need a sub for a tight game.
ReplyDeletealso castilla where on a tough battle to try to move up and their where very close but mou stop using key players at the end, he didn't wanted to disturbed the good streak they were on, there was a game when he had a canterano and he save him because of a game they had the next day. i cant recall the game it was or the player but the tv announcer made that comment.
last point, having a youth player in the bench for the so call "easy" games is not always the best idea. real madrid left 17 point to teams that were battling the relegation, how can you try to sub in a sarabia or morata when osasuna or zaragosa is beating you or tie with the likes almeria or levante. its easy to say give them 10 or 15 minutes in the 8-0 of levante or the 7-0 of malaga, the 8-1 of almeria etc but how do you know when you can call them and when you can't. in the bench you want to have a 1 keeper, 1 cb, 1 fb, 1 cm, 1 am/w and 2 forward.
You guys are so damn blind.
ReplyDeleteWhat the hell is up with you canterano-loving people? I've been a Real supporter for a lifetime, and never has the demand for canteranos been this high. What, is it because of the damn cules? Just because they use them, and get praised for it, we're suddenly jealous?
I've always given a flying fuck about canteranos. They're nice to have, as they are Madridistas and home-made, but in the end, it's about winning matches. If a bunch of Portugeezers are better at it than some young Spaniards, then I'd rather see us play the former.
And how many of you even know these Canteranos? You guys see a couple of matches, and then hear rumours, and suddenly you think we've got Ronaldos and Messis running around in Castilla.
BREAKING NEWS: CASTILLA PLAYS IN THE FUCKING THIRD DIVISION!
Barca have a reason to promote their youngsters ..= They're actually good at playing top-level football. They play in the segaund, and have for many years been the best reserve-team, along with Villareal B (ofcourse none of them can be promoted to primera).
And I'm not saying WE don't produce the same level of players. We do. We have one of the best academies in the world. The different is; We don't KEEP them. You really thing Barca make many talents? Try to scout for their talents around the world. They've got VERY few top players.
Real Madrid?
:Soldado, Borja Valero, Negredo, Juan Mata, Luis Garcia, Dani Parejo, Javi Garcia, Jurado, , just to mention a few players who are actually important to their team.
Let's not forget people like Casillas, Raul, De la Red, and so on.
We CAN make talents. Difference is, we don't give a FUCK about using them. And know you can call the waaambulance, or you can ask yourself .::: Why should we?
La Fabrica has always produced a shit load of talents. And we've always kept the best, (raul, Iker), made the others great footballers at other clubs (see above list), and kept the rest of the shitty bunch in La Fabrica for further improvement.
Let me tell you a story about Raul. You think he was a shy, invisibile-almost, kid like Morata or Joselu? No, the guy had GUTS and SKILLS! He said to the coach one day, as a CANTERANO, that "if he wanted to win, play me, if you want to lose, play someone else". That kind of player shines, and you just know he's going to be big.
None of our current canteranos are that. And proof? THEY PLAY IN FUCKING TERCERA DIVISION!!!
The thing is, we've got our best canteranos on our team: Casillas, Alvaro Arbeloa and Callejon. Who more do we need? Carvajal, Morata, Josel, Jese, all these over-hyped players ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. And if you believe that Mourinho is going to choose canterano X above foreign player Y, then you're mistaken. That's not the mentality here at Madrid,and I must say you are at the wrong club then. Maybe you should try Barca?
It seems as if in the middle of all this Barca-dominance, people forget who WE are, and just want to copy Barca.. Suddenly Possesion-football is how we should play (therefore the cries about that bitch Del Bosque), canteranos were important, and all that shit about being "humble".
But I guess that's how the world is. Some people will always be a liiitle bit smarter than others.
saying that they are not good because they r in a segunda b is a tad harsh. we dont want to be barca. bt having canteranos on our first team has been there. Barca have just reinvented it. Ferguson has deployed it and it has worked. well u cant say they are bad without giving them chance. i am sure, if iker casillas, has evolved right now, he would proabably be at inter right now and we would be cursing our mgt. a team being in segunda B doesnt make them bad. a team is nt the one we r promoting, we r promoting individuals. after all, when ramos was bought at 19 what title had he won? u r the guys who say that Messi and ronaldo suck at their countries? does that stop them from being world class strikers??? no!!! two players could be able to make the leap bt the rest are not
ReplyDeleteI agree with you..a team being in segunda B doesnt make them that bad. After all what club sucess have Jordi Alba,fernando Lorrientea and Jesus Navas to receive call ups ignoring some Barcelona, Madrid players. what title had Seville won for Ramos to get his National call up?
ReplyDeletei wonder how u know they are not good enough. My dear, it is just not about Barca because they r a good example. we have bought bought players and it is nt working. Have we beaten them?????????????? noooooooooooo!!! Maybe we need to go back with our old strategy after all we have nothing to lose. that way we will spend less money. why buy people expensively when we have our own?? u can never know who is good enough unless u give them chance to prove them selves. for a start a promotion would give them opportunity for them to fight for a starting xi that way if they fail, they have none but themsleves to blame
ReplyDeletefergusons team of the 99 was 80% canteranos and it worked. and i am glad that despite overwhelming pressure to buy midfield he has insisted on youth products. it may cost him the league but has longer term benefits
ReplyDelete